From FHL IME

台語文 Tâi-gí-bûn Learning Taioanese
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Thanks for creating this chat, and this resource. I am still struggling to type POJ. On my Mac, i can get è and ô and even ó with the Option key, in English input mode. With 信望愛 I can get 漢字 output using lomaji.

But I can't get Mac to type ō, without installing more IMEs like Hawaiian input.

What Mac IME do people use to type POJ here???

I feel that I am missing something stupidly simple here.

Edited 1:

Sigh. I should have watched the 信望愛 video. I looked hard for a written guide. But the video is much more clear. On my Mac, the 信望愛 preference window is shown in Lomaji and it wasn't clear to me what those settings are. Now I know, you can have it produce Lomaji output instead of 漢字 by making choices with shift-1 through 9. https://youtu.be/PP7uFZBrbS4

But this still doesn't answer completely my question. Let's say that you are proficient in Taigi (I can talk just fine). And let's say that I eventually master the writing of the 7 tones (I intellectually understand them now). So I expect soon I can just type Taigi using regular English keyboards. So I still want to find out how to type "ō" that way.

But of course, I also recognize that I'l probably get an even worse case of carpal tunnel by typing with the Option key that way. There has to be an IME for just plain lomaji input...

Edited 2:

I left my stupid questions, and chose to add edits instead. Perhaps this will help the next guy that comes along. So I thought that even when I made the 信望愛 preference to output Lomaji, it would still output 漢字, when 漢字 shows up on top of Lamaji choices. It turns out I just have to choose one, and let it remember my chose for that sound (e.g. tong7 -> tōng (動) ), and then next time this choice will be at the top of the selection list. And I will be able to hit the Space key to turn tong7 into tōng.

So the answer to my original question is now: stop trying to type tōng with the English IME. And configure 信望愛 to make it work. And type a few things to teach it, and in time this input method should work well.

Recommendation

A'ióng, for those trying to learn to type either Lô-má-jī or 漢字, for the very first time, without any prior background, trying to figure out how things work is not easy. They can't read Instructions written in lô-má-jī, even if these instructions exist (hard to find). And one can't type in lô-má-jī on Google to begin looking for them. It's a catch-22 issue. They can't find the right answers to their questions, because they can't type their questions.

That 信望愛 video I cited above helped me see how this is supposed to be used. But it's far from enough.

You can probably make a video on this topic.

But you'll probably just tell me you've made one already :smiley:

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Good idea, I'll make a video.

Also, moved to English sub-forum. Please keep English content in here, you can always link to another Taiwanese-language thread for reference.

For the FHL IME settings, there is a Lomaji-only mode. You don't need any shift keys or character selection. Just type the tone numbers and you're off to the races.

O͘ is input as ou, ⁿ is input as nn. That's about it.

If you want to swap out for the Taiwanese Hanji database, just drop the TalmageOverride file in the appropriate folder, I'm not sure what the path is on MacOS but I'm sure you'll find it.

Don't bother trying to type "correct" Lomaji on a non-Taiwanese keyboard. Sometimes people type a shorthand without tone marks, but for proper input you need a proper input method.

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Thanks for moving it. I didn't mean to screw up the main Tâi-gí forum.

For the FHL IME settings, there is a Lomaji-only mode...

Yeah. Of course now I know :slight_smile: And I figured out the nn stuff by trial and error. There were only a small number of ways a developer would implement it.

I pasted the entire phrase list in manually. On MacOS, there is an "Edit Tâi-gí user phrases" context menu. It pops up an originally empty file, with special markers at the top and at the bottom. I just pasted the whole list in.

Don't bother trying to type "correct" Lomaji on a non-Taiwanese keyboard. Sometimes people type a shorthand

I will, of course, switch to that mode. But you may take it for granted after having first learned the explicit way. I think if I don't train myself to guess the right spelling and tone in the beginning, I will not actually learn completely. Once I become proficient, I'll switch to shortcuts. For now, as I mentioned, I use the shortcut as a self-teaching tool. I look it up, but don't hit SPACE to complete it. Instead, I re-type it myself in the painful way.

Cheers

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That's one way, but I'd say it's more for "advanced users" since it keeps both the original Hanji that comes with the IME, and the Taiwanese Hanji. Meaning, it'll be difficult for you to know/guess which Hanji options are Chinese, and which are Taiwanese. Probably better to use the TalmageOverride.db file instead, which disables the Chinese Hanji that ship with the IME, so you will only get the Taiwanese Hanji when typing. Just drop the file in the same location as that user phrases TaigiUser.cin file, wherever it happens to reside on a Mac. You can find the location by using the text editor where the file opens, or just search for TaigiUser.cin. (If you ever want to restore the original, just remove the Override file.)

Definitely a good idea to type out full words and tone numbers yourself. I highly recommend typing one syllable at a time; it really helped me a lot in acquiring & remembering vocab.

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... since it keeps both the original Hanji that comes with the IME, and the Taiwanese Hanji. Meaning, it'll be difficult for you to know/guess which Hanji options are Chinese, and which are Taiwanese....

Yes. As you said. This is partially why I was confused in the beginning.

But I've since figured out a way to cope with having both of them. The original (single-character) Hanji list contains a few more words. That's why I ended up keeping both (for now).

The way I cope with this is a bit hard to explain. I tried to explained it the earlier. Basically, I set preferences to always output Lomaji. But if the single character shows up at the top, hitting SPACE will output this Hanji unfortunately. I just find the longer phrase I want, and hit a number key to select it. Once I made a choice, it remembers it. So next time this longer choice shows up at the top, and SPACE key selects. it.

This may be a transitional thing I find useful for now. Eventually I'll probably not need those single-char Hanji words. Now I know that replacing the file is not the same as "appending" additional phrases.

This is why a video will be useful. It's much easier to show this in a video than trying to explain it.

However, I realize that making such a video will be quite time consuming.

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It may sound crazy at first blush — and there are other factors — but one reason the original FHL list contains so many Hanji is because it contains a great number of obscure Hanji that were never used in traditional Taioanese-speaking society. Most of these obscure Hanji probably entered the FHL list via Campbell (甘字典), which collected obscure Hanji in keeping with the fashion of Qing times (which reached Formosa very late), and the cultural conceits of proto-Chinese (Tionghoa) nationalism — both based on inferiority complexes.